Until there is more positive signalling out of Washington, the Australia–China relationship will remain frozen. Neither Morrison nor Albanese has the grace, courage, or diplomatic skills to challenge the status quo.
Two months ago, In my essay ‘How Australia sabotaged its own interests in relations with China’ I reviewed how Australia’s formerly thriving ‘special relationship’ with China had eroded, to Australia’s loss, since around 2015.
I attributed full responsibility to Australia, blaming poor decision-making and clumsy diplomacy towards Beijing by both Turnbull and Morrison governments. I argued that the national security tail had been allowed to wag the national interest dog, sacrificing vital Australian economic interests to US-influenced Sinophobia. Even in Turnbull’s time, the unwise foreign interference legislation and associated media exposure of alleged agents of Chinese influence (reputations ruined and visas cancelled, but nothing ever went to court) had gone down very badly in Beijing.
How Australia sabotaged its own interests in relations with China.
Things have worsened under Morrison: Australian Sinophobe media propaganda went into high gear in support of US Trump administration allegations of persecution of Chinese Muslims in Xinjiang, human rights abuses in Hong Kong, and military provocations in South China Sea – all strenuously rebutted by China.
Worst of all, Morrison through his foreign minister had accused China of exporting Covid to the world. Australia’s mainstream media had taken up the government’s China-baiting with gusto. By December, things looked very bad indeed – possibly beyond repair, at least under the Morrison Government, which stubbornly insisted that Australia was in no way at fault: that the door was open to China to ‘pick up the phone’ and rebuild a relationship based on mutual economic self-interest. This was a profound misreading of how China had valued its previous warm and sincere good relations with Australia.
All of this is by now a familiar critique, at least to P and I readers. Where I went further – and some readers were prepared to entertain the idea – was to suggest the collapse in the relationship was not entirely due to Australian ineptitude and lurking Sinophobia, but may have been quietly encouraged by Australia’s senior Five Eyes partners US and Britain, keen to ensure that their loyal lackey stayed firmly in the Five Eyes strategic laager as US and UK relations with China soured under Trump and Johnson – whatever the cost to Australia.
Sadly, revisiting that essay, in my view nothing important has changed in the past two months. Let’s review what has changed, and what hasn’t.
The most important factor governing Australian attitudes is Washington under the new President Joe Biden. The anti-China hardliners still seem to have the upper hand, judging by harsh words from Secretary of State Blinken, who, after talking to China’s top foreign policy official Yang Jiechi on 6 February, tweeted:
‘I made clear the US will defend our national interests, stand up for our democratic values, and hold Beijing accountable for its abuses of the international system’.
The signaling from Biden is equally hard. As far back as 26 November, Xi sent to Biden a message of congratulations.
Chinese state media reported that Xi messaged Biden that he hoped the two countries would ‘uphold the spirit of non-conflict, non-confrontation, mutual respect and win-win cooperation, [to] focus on cooperation, manage differences, advance the healthy and stable development of China-US ties, and join hands with other countries and the international community to promote the noble cause of world peace and development’.
Biden’s response as President was cool, to say the least. In an interview with CBS on 8 February, he said he ‘had not yet had occasion to talk to Xi’ (remarkably, some 10 weeks after Xi’s announced warm message to him). He said Xi was very tough, very bright, but no democrat. Biden said that unlike Trump, he would ‘focus on international rules of the road’ in dealing with China. He said the countries need not be in conflict, but ‘there’s going to be extreme competition’.
None of this sounds as if any US-China détente is in prospect any time soon. Tensions remain high over Taiwan, whipped up by Western media speculation on increased possibilities for armed conflict there.
Australian Sinophobes in and around the Morrison government take comfort from the continuing coldness in Washington towards China. And Australian Labor, ever fearful of being wedged if it deviates from fervent pro-Americanism, is staying in line behind Morrison’s barely hidden disdain for the Chinese government (see below).
Until there is more positive signalling out of Washington, and it is hard to say when or if this may take place, the Australia–China relationship will remain frozen. Neither Morrison nor Albanese has the grace, courage, or diplomatic skills to challenge the status quo. Nor will Payne, Tehan or Wong step out of line. Both parties continue to be sanctimonious on Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and the South China Sea. There is no sign that either party comprehends the disinformation and regime disruption objectives that support and sustain these Anglo-American narratives, strongly propagandised in the New York Times, Washington Post and The Economist.
Morrison’s latest comments at the National Press Club on 1 February reeked of self satisfaction and condescension towards China: essentially his message was ‘Let us teach you Chinese how the world works.’
He said his government remained committed to its relationship with China although it had different economic and political systems. He said:
‘An enduring partnership requires both of us to adapt to new realities and talk to each other and that begins with dialogue at both ministerial and leader level … A dialogue focused not on concessions but on areas of mutual benefit committed to finding a way for our nations and peoples to beneficially engage into the future.’
The man has no idea – or perhaps he does – how these words and his self-satisfied tone would have simply rubbed more salt in China’s wounds.
Morrison reacted sharply to friendly advice from the New Zealand Trade Minister Damien O’Connor on 28 January, who said that Australia might do better if it showed more respect towards China. O’Connor said New Zealand had a ‘mature’ relationship with China and could raise issues of concern, but added it also respected its trade ties with Beijing.
Morrison’s response on SkyNews on 1 February was uncompromising He rebuked New Zealand: ‘The Five Eyes is really important, and so are liberal market democracies… all of these countries need to align more… on security issues and intelligence’ in opposition to ‘authoritarian’ countries. He added: ‘We’ve got to continue to maintain our vigilance over this, and to do that we’ve got to stick together.’
ASEAN messaging to Australia, especially at think-tank level, warns of the economic decline that awaits us if we go on failing to repair our relations with Beijing.
For example, Singaporean elder statesman and former head of the Foreign Ministry Kishore Mahbubani commented pointedly in the Australian Financial Review on 5 February: ‘Now Australia has dug itself into a hole. All of Asia is watching intently to see who will blink in the current Australia-China stand-off.’
One swallow does not make a summer, but Justice Steven Rares’ award on 2 February of $590,000 defamation damages to prominent Chinese-Australian businessman and philanthropist Chau Chak Wing against the ABC and Channel Nine for falsely alleging he was an agent of Chinese influence will have been quietly welcomed in Beijing. Gossip has it that the ABC and Channel Nine relied on leaked advice from ASIO and ASPI. They may be less inclined to trust such sources in future, and mainstream media hysteria against China seems to be abating a little.
But Chinese Australians continue to worry with good cause about a new spirit of McCarthyism in Australia, and trade and investment and higher education links continue to languish. I wish I had better news to impart, but I don’t.
Tony Kevin is a former Australian ambassador to Poland and Cambodia, and a member of the Emeritus Faculty at Australian National University. The author of Return to Moscow (2017), he has independently visited Russia six times since 2016. He has delivered lectures and taken part in academic conferences in the Moscow Diplomatic Academy and in Saint Petersburg on the outlook for Russia-Australia relations.
Comments
108 responses to “Morrison can barely hide his disdain for China; Labor fears being wedged”
Honestly – what is it about ‘diplomacy’ which rivets diplomats’ viewpoints simply to the ‘useful’?
China is headed by a dictator – has been since 2018. Further, a ‘Dark Triadist’ dictator – psychopathic, narcissistic and machiavellian. A dictator to whom every commercial and bureaucratic institution is accountable – and by whom is punishable.
Sure, China’s population has been lifted hugely out of poverty over the last several decades. Great – terrific. Well done. But at the continuing expense of both peoples in China (where is freedom as we know it?; how deep are the human rights abuses of Tibetans, Uighurs and other geographically peripheral minorities?) and peoples outside China – promises to establish megacities 6 km from Australia’s coast; promises to lend $Bs without expectable loan default positions (i. e. to assume ownership of that for which they have lent). Worst of all, the consistent Chinese assertion that anyone of Chinese heritage is, despite citizenship, to be regarded nonetheless as a Chinese person, subject to the laws and dominion of China.
Tony Kevin may have been a respectworthy diplomat but I much prefer the diplomacy of the Australian people. China is a nation unable to be trusted; a nation whose disregard for human sacredness may, within some very few decades, plunge us all into WWIII.
China’s apologists need to take severe stock; to understand that those of us who live in (admittedly imperfect) democracies have every motive, every reason, to do what we can to invite a remarkable nation to trust the judgement of its own people, not the Dark Triadism of its present Leadership.
Funny what you say, all of the attributes of a Dark Triadist dictator are far more obvious in someone like Donald Trump. Even many Americans can see that. So spare us your amateur and biased psychological assessments please.
Even Trump’s own niece who is at least a highly qualified clinical psychologist, gave us an assessment that ticked all your Dark Triadist boxes. Psychopath, narcissist, egoist, and a man driven by sadistic revenge.
Trump didn’t do damn thing for his own people the entire time he was in office. Coronavirus being only one example. He is such a narcissist he only cares about himself.
You want to know what Chinese think about their leader: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/
You say:
“Tony Kevin may have been a respectworthy diplomat but I much prefer the diplomacy of the Australian people.”
What gives you the right to think you represent the views of Australian people more than Tony Kevin does? It is arrogant, pretty much how the Liberal Party thinks, and even then they are the views of the US administration, not ours.
George – you will note that Trump’s Dark Triadism engendered 74M votes for him – and a further 81M votes against. Such is the depth of his psycho-social pathology.
I have always accepted that mainland Chinese people have overwhelmingly endorsed their dictator. Just as (until very recently) some 80+% of Russians have been endorsing Putin.
I am not a Liberal – I am a ‘progressive’ (left of Labor). My ‘arrogance’ stems from my privilege of being an ordinary person; what ‘bubble’ I have is transparent and vulnerable.
My views are mine – not those of a ‘U. S. administration.’
BTW George, why attack me on these peripheral points? I suspect you actually agree with the thrust of my remarks but simply think I have not the ‘standing’ to make them.
“Trump’s Dark Triadism engendered 74M votes for him – and a further 81M votes against. Such is the depth of his psycho-social pathology.”
After today’s acquittal through the Republican vote, I think we can forget America, and particularly the Republicans for having not one ounce left of ethics in their conduct. It is a failed state.
America like no other, had has the ear of the Australian government to the point of such sycophancy we are not being given a fair view of China in the least. We’ve been visited by many Americans all telling us how to think about China over and over again, whether Democrat or Republican. The government is informed by the belligerent ASPI which in turn is funded by America, American corporations, and the US military-industrial complex. The pro-Liberal media in this country does nothing but spread the same negativity continuously about China, on any matter it sees fit. There is never a positive word, and in my entire life (now 67) I have never seen such a lengthy tirade against any country. In Australia the media has whipped up its audience to milk new levels of yellow peril and neo-McCarthyism well. Australia has a long history of falling for that.
If you are going to level human rights abuse charges at China, then why does our government applaud themselves when they recently made a FTA with Israel, sells military equipment to Saudi Arabia, (as US and Britain do in enormous quantities as well) despite international criticism, which has fuelled a disaster and the deaths of 100,000 people and another 85,000 by starvation alone in Yemen. Of course our media is taciturn on that.
Your views might be yours, that is acceptable for me, but don’t insinuate that in some way you represent the ‘diplomatic views of the Australian people’, which is in turn based on one of the most obvious manufacturing consent campaigns for another US led war in Australian history. And just like with Iraq many of the claims made are false and designed to inspire racism and hate. Many people of Chinese heritage even if they are Australian citizens, are paying a price for that, in some cases brutal attacks.
I am not dealing with peripheral points, I go to the core. Only since Trump was elected has the issue of the Uyghurs and Tibetans surfaced and been promoted world wide, particularly in Anglophone countries. Prior to that no one in any Australian government or US government cared too much.
In any case, the issue for many of us on here is not solely about China, but our blind allegiance as a country towards the US. Already the push against China started under Obama, but it has never been about anything other than America feeling it is losing its hegemonic place in the world, and may face the possibility of becoming the world’s second largest economy.
Sure China does things wrong, but we have now seen a concerted campaign for regime change. Pompeo nearly caused WWIII in his last days in office.
“promises to establish megacities 6 km from Australia’s coast; promises to lend $Bs without expectable loan default positions”
Daru Island is just a little under 200 kms from Australia, and many more kilometres from any major city.
The PNG government acknowledges they received a development proposal many months ago but they are not interested, even the PNG Prime minister said he had never heard of it. There isn’t even enough water on the island to do it – we know that because Australian companies were employed to search for water for the island. The media here, once again whipped that up into a storm. Even Morrison said it a was purely speculative, he repeated it twice. It was the idea of a company registered in both Hong Kong in the US, yet our lazy media ready to create more sensation said it was the Chinese government behind it.
And can you tell me what happened in Vanuatu when about 2-3 years ago the media decided a wharf the Chinese built was a military base? Where is it?
As far as debt trap diplomacy goes, most of the accusations concerning China are unfounded, even Sri Lanka. I also suggest that before you accuse China of it, you also just take a look at the history of the IMF and World Bank who have even during the pandemic, made many loans that will lead to austerity in the impoverished countries they offer them too.
Thank you for your considered and detailed response, George.
Let me address the points you make.
I do not agree with you that ‘America is a failed State’. I have always maintained faith and trust in the resilience of the U. S Constitution, despite my hopes – and now my regret – re Trump’s non-conviction re impeachment. My present belief is that the GOP will split – or that Trump will attempt to form a ‘Trump Party’. And since when have ethics played any significant part in Executive Government?
I agree that China has (generally) been portrayed negatively since about early 2018. Do you think it’s a mere coincidence that that is when Xi became ‘President for Life’? Btw – the former U. S. S. R. was heavily inveighed against from 1947 to 1989 – far more intensely and for far longer that we now inveigh against China.
Our Government applauds itself when it believes it is advancing the cause of profit. Regardless.
You, George, saw ‘an insinuation’. I did not. I am certainly no ‘diplomat’ (at least not by title!).
George, sorry but this quote is simply arrant nonsense: “Only since Trump was elected has the issue of the Uyghurs and Tibetans surfaced and been promoted world wide, particularly in Anglophone countries. Prior to that no one in any Australian government or US government cared too much.” Don’t you recall the Dalai Lama??
Pompeo causing WWIII? Mate – your hysteria risks you becoming a laughing stock.
I accept your comments re the PNG proposal.
George, come on. We have a very powerful nation prepared to lend lots of money to nations far less powerful. The powerful nation is permanently led by a Dark Triadist. As if it is not simply realistic to assume that China will buy the sovereignty of its meaowing and writhing victims. If you were a strategic adviser to any Australian Government, wouldn’t you head the queue proffering exactly this advice?
That is not to say that the IMF and the World Bank have not acted egregiously in some circumstances. They, though, are not sovereign nations.
Only two Australian prime ministers have ever met with the Dalai Lama despite his numerous visits. They were Paul Keating in 1992, and John Howard in 2007. During his first visit in 1982, he was not known well in the country and the media gave him little attention. During 1992 he was given the best acknowledgement and was allowed to have his Gelugpa monks make the Kalachakra Mandala in Parliament House.
Despite the meetings, no prime minister ever took up the cause for the Tibetans or the Dalai Lama as temporal leader. I should know something because I was a follower of Tibetan Buddhism for many years, particularly during the decade of the 1990s.
In the US, presidents since George H. W. Bush have met with him, except for Donald Trump who broke the tradition of more than 30 years. It didn’t stop him form using Tibet for his MAGA cause. It is not unusual that American presidents have met with him since the US has along history of involvement in Tibet with the CIA. For many years that was more about the USSR rather than the Chinese, just as it was in India and Pakistan and the British during the separations. Despite what you say the media has not done much nor brought the Dalai Lama’s cause to the world until Trump came into power, particularly in Australia. May I remind you that China ‘invaded’ Tibet in 1950. But under the Qing dynasty Tibet was already a protectorate of China, and that was reinforced by the British in the early part of the 20th Century.
I will not go into depth on the issue of the Uyghurs, but the current problems have been going on since the 192os. It is a complex issue given that there are around 8 other countries it borders in the region. The basic problem is that the Uyghurs, somewhat like the Kurds want their own nation. Something like an East Turkmenistan. I would suggest you look up Dr David Brophy, and Australian academic who has been to the region and has written an excellent book on the situation called Uyghur nation. Why I don’t want to go into is because I have discussed it many times on this site, ad infinitum, and you can look that up on my profile which contains all of my comments.
I would not laugh at what I said about how close we got to WWIII recently. This was mainly because in the last few weeks of the Trump administration, Pompeo went on a tour of South East Asia and pushed for regime change. He was unsuccessful in persuading the countries involved. He also provoked tensions in Taiwan by firming up diplomatic relations when the US claims it respects the One China Policy. Something that Biden has since re-affirmed. During Trump’s time in office, a de facto embassy was put in place and significant sales of weapons were made by the US to Taiwan. There is no doubt that some of these actions were set up by Trump and Pompeo to cause problems for Biden, but it was also to provoke China. They sailed the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt through the Taiwan Straits, and intruded into Chinese territorial waters near the Paracel Islands.
Obviously you don’t read Chinese newspapers, but I have never seen such a editorial that actually spoke of an impending war surfacing from the Global Times during that period, and I am certain China expected a conflict to take place as a parting gift from the Trump Administration. The war games going on there, including from close by US naval and airbases is something most Australians no nothing about. Since Biden has been in office nuclear capable bombers have been re-stationed in Guam.
I suggest you read Hugh White’s evaluation recently on P&I of how any conflict might pan out in the Sino region between the US and China and how easily that could turn into a nuclear war where other partners could join in. The US is also unlikely to win in a regional war.
War is not funny, and anyone that states they are concerned about human rights cannot be believed if their default position, beyond the use of skilful diplomacy with China, offers no other solution than sloppily falling into conflict.
Again, George, I am indebted to – and grateful for – your dedication and knowledge.
I make these points in reply.
Firstly, appreciation of the Dalai Lama does not depend on meetings with Australian Prime Ministers. Particularly when such meetings connote such an influential and heavy implication as to the legitimacy of the Chinese Government’s actions. I believe that most Australians have not only heard of the Dalai Lama but view him favourably and have done for some decades.
Secondly, I appreciate the point you make re Tibetan independence. My bias (as it is) is to best enable those who wish to establish independent States to do so. That principle applies to the Kurds, the Palestinians and even the (yet-to-be-declared) Region of Bundjalung (here in our gorgeous Northern Rivers of NSW).
Similarly with a potential Uyghur nation. I appreciate the apparent complexity just as I do the complexities of other candidates for self-determination. West Papua – and even East Timor – come readily to mind, despite minimal bordering nations. Resolution awaits a mature United Nations.
Who was it who referred to a ‘hollow drum’ (I think)? Shakespeare – “full of sound and fury [yet of no consequence]”. He presaged Pompeo. And his Macbethian ambitions for the Presidency. Pompeo wished to outshine a comparable idiot – Dick Cheney – whose daughter now so shows up her father for the limited human being he so often displayed himself to be.
I have read Hugh White’s contributions and accord him my deepest possible respect. I adore the fact that, as an Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at no less than the A.N.U., he can – and he does – commit to the doing of expressing his incredibly well-constructed perspective and various views, confronting so many other “Defence Gurus” in the process (and knocking most of them for several strategic ‘sixes’).
George – it is your last comment which most moves me.
Let me ask you. How much faith do you have in the capacities of both the present Australian Government on the one hand and Australia’s diplomatic representatives on the other to simply and consistently state to China and the World at large that Australians believe in popular control and accountability of their elected officials and that China does not; equally that Australians value their constitutional ability to toss out Leaders even like John Howard (no, I am not a Liberal) whereas the Chinese Leadership cowers behind its camouflaged paranoia?
This message is incredibly important. We need to convey it to the 1.3B citizens of China. And we need to invent and deploy relevant and robust technology to do just that. Yes – we would be quickly accused of ‘meddling in China’s internal affairs’. And we would be. Because its Governmental structure is so thin, so weak, so vulnerable that it will end up swallowing its own tail, likely within 30 years. And it is exactly that sort of political carbuncle which needs Global eradication to enhance Global peace.
Presumably you are also open to the PRC encouraging the payment of massive reparations to the Indigenous people of Australia. The victims of a real genocide. There is a legal precedent. The payment of massive reparations to Israel by the Federal Republic of Germany in 1953 under the Luxembourg Agreement.
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%20162/volume-162-I-2137-English.pdf
The Federal Republic was in no way morally responsible for the holocaust as they were anti-Nazi Germans. But they were Germans. When next i am in the Embassy picking up my Beijing RMB’s as an agent i will put your suggestion to my controllers. With respect you analogy regarding West Papua is absurd. The takeover of West Papua by Indonesia was part of a decolonisation process and subject to a rigged plebiscite by the Indonesians. Xinjiang has been a part of sovereign China for three hundred years. Presumably you support the Australian Navy sailing aggressively into Indonesian waters and a boycott of Bali in support of West Papuan independence?
You are a supporter of a corrupt party of neo-liberalism (the ALP) who apparently believes that replacing Howard with Rudd/Gillard meant any significant change in the power and domination of this country by mining and media oligarchs. Gina and Rupert ring a bell? I know Billy Shorten. In terms of morality i would rank him with Ferdinand Marcos. Dont even ask about that champion of the ALP left and Albo’s mate Ian “Eddies Pet Crocodile” McDonald. I would rank him below Imelda. Your claims regarding democracy under capitalism have no credibility. It is an international laughing stock.
Xi Jinping did not become “President for life’. If you are going to make an absurd allegation of government by Triads at least check the facts. Firstly, Delegates to the National People’s Congress overwhelmingly voted to pass a constitutional amendment
to abolish the two-term limit imposed on China’s president, which will allow the incumbent, Xi Jinping to stay in power beyond 2023. Communist party and state leaders still must follow the rules on retirement. The Communist Party of China Constitution clearly states that “leading party cadres at all levels, whether elected through democratic procedure or appointed by a leading body, are not entitled to lifelong tenure.”
Since the 1950’s the CPC has through regulation and constitutional clauses prohibited lifelong tenure. In 1978 the CPC and the NPC instituted changes to prevent de facto lifelong tenure. This was very emotional and painful because it applied to the veterans of the revolutionary war who were the founding generation of the Peoples Republic. Basically the situation is that the legislature, the National People Congress (not the Communist Party), removed the 1978 restriction. The reason is obvious. Xi Jinping and his cabinet are playing a blinder. They want him to stay to complete the task of making China a prosperous and equitable society. Which on all their form to date they will. If you are unsettled by the power of PRC so far, you are in for a rough decade ahead. Imagine. An Asian country led by commies, the most prosperous and powerful nation on earth. The stuff of a white man’s nightmare champ?
Firstly, let’s just get this “Triadist” business sorted.
“Dark Triadism’ is an expression first promulgated in 2003 to represent a cluster of aberrant psychological/psycho-social syndromes: narcissism, psychopathology and machiavellianism. Add sadism to that mix and you get ‘Dark Tetradism’. Very few people have ever heard of either – and all global citizens need to.
I know little about Chinese ‘Triads’; they are irrelevant to this discussion.
Secondly, would you care to estimate/guess/assert just how long Xi Jinping will occupy the office of President? Longer than 2023, sure. Not as long as his lifetime – oh yeah?
Mao enjoyed the same status. It took his death (in the mid-70’s) to end his Presidency.
I am unable to believe, on the information I have read to date, that Xi will “retire” before his own death.
Firstly “Triad” as you used the term is a racial stereotype. You use it mate. Wear it.
In regard to your extraordinary claim that Xi will die in harness can please quote your sources? In regagd to Mao I have already explained that the Constitution rule in regard to prohibiting life time tenure was introduced in 1978. It was in response to the circumstance of Mao who had slipped into senility whilst occupying the position. To the great damage to China. Why would the CPC and the NPC allow a repeat of that situation?
Xi is 67 years of age. Given the life expectancy of Chinese males are you seriously suggesting, based on absolutely no evidence, that he will bat on into his eighties? Like a lot of of sinophobes do you imagine that Xi personally pens the extensive policy for the five year plans? There is literally hundreds of thousands of policy members of the CPC and NPC who determine this work. China is an enormous country and economy. A centrally planned one at that. Are you really so soaked in crude anti-Chinese propaganda to believe that the PRC is a one man dictatorship? That Xi personally writes out in calligraphy the five year plan? Xi is an important symbol of success and stability to continue that stability and success through the next five year plan. That would make him about 71 when he retires. He says that China has three great battles. The battle against poverty, the battle for national security and the battle for the environment. The great Lee Kwan Yew, as a “leftist” you surely admire him? Lee wrote of Xi in his last book “One Man’s View of the World” that Xi was a man of “great breadth”, comparing him to Nelson Mandela. A view evidently shared by the vast majority of the Chinese people. The PRC is entering an exciting period of development and achievement. And one of great danger from a militarized, divided and declining empire in the US. Mate when we are winning the Ashes we dont change our skippers against the Poms.
Champ i have taken it upon myself to diagnose and call out the Dr Fu Manchu Neurosis (DFMN) condition of Australians. DFMN is an irrational deeply psychological fear by Australians of intelligent, clever and strong Chinese. Its as Australian as footy, meat pies and snowdropping (look it up). There is absolutely no connection between the amazing achievement of PRC eliminating poverty and the Tibetan economy much less Xianjing. The economic powerhouse was built with a brilliant fusion of modernity (Marxism, science and technology) and Chinese culture in all its wonderful diversity (look that up also) by the Communist Party of China. But the give away for your DFMN diagnosis was the phrase “Dark Triadism” so redolent of the sinister and sneaky Dr. Fu Manchu. Thanks champ you made my day.
Skilts – I am not racist; I like and respect every Chinese person I’ve met (and that’s a few).
‘Dark Triaism’ is the best secular representation of ‘personality wickedness’ I’ve yet encountered (except for ‘Dark Tetradism’). It is complex and grossly under recognised – not least because far too many of us put far too much faith in the efficacy of sociological/political processes to contain its behavioural effects. Thankfully, we have trained psychotherapists to help. But, until all of us understand this horrible syndrome (a philosophic task), we cannot expect psychotherapy alone to be a complete panacea.
Your employment of the sinister Triad is specifically Chinese and i call your post out as a racist comment. A Triad is a secret society. The Communist Party of China has 91 million members. Hardly a secret. I am sure you have many Chinese friends. You attitude is typically Aussie in regard to Chinese people. Happy when they take in your laundry or are growing market veggies. Banging gongs and snaking a dragon around Chinatown. Sinister when they or their country is strong, growing and powerful. Did it never occur to you that PRC growing power is the consequence of brilliant thinking and hard work by over a billion people? You imply that their government is a sinister criminal conspiracy without any argumentation or facts. You say you are ALP. Do you agree with the basic tenet of Marxism and the Chinese Communist Party that all governments are at root representatives of a dominant class? If you do then the facade of parliamentary democracy is a fig leaf for a social and economic dictatorship (ie rule without election). If you dont i have a bridge i can sell you cheap in Sydney.
Skilts – this is a forum where we agree not to engage in personal abuse.
I have answered you factually. What you believe is, of course, up to you. I’m just letting you know I will not be bullied or browbeaten by your – or anyone else’s – convictions nor prejudices nor mind-sets nor obsessions.
You will note that the extraordinary John Menadue has an expanded editorial team. I have every confidence they will uphold and enforce the standards they have asserted.
I did not abuse you. Your post was racist. I have amended my comment to read “your post was racist”. I accept the difference between objecting to a racist comment and accusing someone i dont know who is anonymous as a “racist”. Fair play. It was a racist comment because you used a racist imagery of a Triad gang to describe the government of the Peoples Republic of China. The same way describing an Aboriginal Lands Council as a “tribe’ is racist. You can withdraw the smear. I identify particular arguments as racist. I have a right to express my view.
Actually you have engaged in personal abuse. I would back Skilts any day, he is far better informed than you appear to be.
“Pompeo causing WWIII? Mate – your hysteria risks you becoming a laughing stock.”
I would also say that dismissing us as “China apologists” is also abusive. It does not take our points of view seriously.
I would back Skilts any day over you since he is at least very well informed, and has some of the best motivations of any of us here on P&I.
“but I much prefer the diplomacy of the Australian people.”
What does that mean then, and what is “the Australian people’s diplomacy”.
For a person who claims to be left , you do seem to support a lot of right wing views.
George, I do not seek to insult.
I am asserting that Skilts’ claim that Pompeo could have been causing WW III is risible.
I am not asserting that those who here argue for Australian acceptance of the moral legitimacy of the Chinese Government’s actions are (necessarily) ‘apologists’.
I agree that Skilts has deep experience in appreciating Chinese culture and, certainly, that I do not. I also appreciate Skilts’ honesty in disclosing his political bias.
What I meant by “the diplomacy of the Australian people” is that ideal situation in which we have surveyed – thickly – Australians’ opinions on the governance of China. “Thickly” means, amongst other things, that those surveyed had read and understood a public fact-checked – i.e. an unbiased – brief on that subject.
So why is everyone calling it ‘The Last Days of Pompeo?’
I’d also call it ‘the last days of Pompeo’. Hopefully, the next four years will prove the point.
George, I almost omitted to reply to your most important point!
I am Leftist.
I am Leftist because I give the single greatest weight to the perspective of ‘how people feel’. So many so-called Leftists are not even aware of how they feel! Way too consumed by intellect. OCD perhaps??
Mate if you are a leftist I am Prince Charles. Apart from the ears I am not. Turn it up mate.
These are kind words George from someone who i dont know but respect. I trust your backing is rhetorical. This old nag would be a long odds bet in life.
As a Chinese, I don’t want China and Australia to get to where they are today. I hope the two countries can have long-term peace and develop their economies together.
But Morrison’s extremely clever policy has made China and Australia play the game of whoever winks first and loses first. The cost of losing is huge. China has clearly sent a signal that even if it permanently destroys the trust between the two countries, it will not blink first.
I don’t know if Morrison is responsible for this, and whether his government will insist on playing this game. But I clearly feel that China is trying its best to avoid playing this dangerous game with the United States (during Trump and Pompeo) and Japan, giving Australia the only chance to perform.
Well said Alex
谢谢你
Our current prime minister is a disciple of trumpism and, trumpism really rocketed the USA forward…
He is the leader of the Trump rump.
Mr Morrison seems to assimilate the rise of China to the rise of Nazi Germany and fascism generally in Europe in the 1930s.
Mr Hartcher in the SMH seems to think that China is a fascist state. Uh??? Underneath it all China is a Marxist state.
All this misguided historical analogising is astonishing. From a prime minister and a senior journalist no less.
It just shows up the eurocentric views of Mr Morrison and Mr Hartcher. And many others. Mr Jennings?
China is becoming a global hegemon in a way that Germany realistically was never going to be. Just a German romantic fantasy.
Consider some numbers. Forty years ago China and India had roughly the same GDP. Now China has fives time India’s GDP. ON a PPP basis the US and China presently have the same GDP. In thirty years time the forecast is that China will have five times the GDP of the US. China will have the world’s highest per capita incomes.
Harchter believes that the 91 million members of the Communist Party of China have been deluded into believing their fascist movement is in fact Marxist. Obviously this meshes nicely with Hartcher’s racism that believes deep down Chinese people are inferior and inherently stupid. Good for doing laundry but unable to determine their own destiny and know the difference between Mussolini and Karl Marx.
I note today that a “PLA destroyer flotilla joins multinational drills in Pakistan with US, Russian navies”.
What?
In November 2020 after the US election, “the Chinese and US militaries held a three-day online seminar on humanitarian assistance and disaster reduction”. OK, humanitarian and disaster reduction.
But this time:
“The exercise this time is unique in a sense that it provides an opportunity to navies from China, Russia and the US and other Western navies to come under one platform”
It “marks the first known time China and the US have been in the same military exercise since US President Joe Biden assumed office in January”.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1215559.shtml
George so our one gunboat will be sailing up the Yangtze by itself commanded by Commodore Morrison. O dear.
Don’t worry he’ll have a little wooden sword like Peter Hartcher.
Hartcher has disproved the axiom “The pen is mightier than the sword”. In his case not.
I only just watched a film last week that is called The Sand Pebbles (1966) with Steve McQueen. Have you seen it?
It is about a US gun boat patrolling the Yangtze in 1926 exactly as you say.
This was part of a “prolonged naval operation from 1854–1949 to protect American interests in the Yangtze River’s treaty ports”. (Wikipedia)
They were already at it back then pushing the Chinese around with patrol boats. The movie is full of American madness and Chinese cultural ignorance and finishes with about half an hour of gun fighting and the usual American hero worship. Totally full of stereotypes of Chinese and China. Although it is supposed to be in 1926 it has a section in the film where a Chinese man is treated to ‘death of a thousand cuts’ or Lingchi or 凌遲. The practice however was banned in China in 1905, and it never was a long and painful death of 1,000 cuts as depicted, victims lasted 10 to 15 minutes, if in fact it really took place as it is said to have been done.
It was reported:
“The Western perception of lingchi has often differed considerably from the actual practice, and some misconceptions persist to the present. The distinction between the sensationalised Western myth and the Chinese reality was noted by Westerners as early as 1895. That year, Australian traveller George Ernest Morrison, who claimed to have witnessed an execution by slicing, wrote that “lingchi [was] commonly, and quite wrongly, translated as ‘death by slicing into 10,000 pieces’ – a truly awful description of a punishment whose cruelty has been extraordinarily misrepresented … The mutilation is ghastly and excites our horror as an example of barbarian cruelty; but it is not cruel, and need not excite our horror, since the mutilation is done, not before death, but after.” (Wikipedia)
Tony is spreading Chinese propaganda.. Don’t give up on keeping australia free from the Chinese, or you’ll turn into honk Kong in a couple of years.
And you are just making spurious claims without justifying a thing you say.
Australia = Hong Kong? At least inform yourself about Hong Kong’s history before spreading pathetic and absurd propaganda.
In any case Hong Kong has always been part of China. Australia is not. But belligerent minded people like yourself could provoke an attack on this country only because you are too lazy to do any research and easily fall victim to prejudice.
You might not like what I say, but loose mouths like yours are putting us all at risk. And I will call you out for doing it.
Australian born citizens, always remember that America will always be with you and we’ll fight the Chinese for your right to be free. You’ll never walk alone.. Just like you helped us in the pacific in WW2, we will help you against the cancer that is China.
We would never have had to suffer a war in the Pacific in WWII if it had not been for a 100 year relationship between the US and Japan that started badly and then eventually went sour. The only reason Japan bombed Pearl Harbor was to stop that part of the US fleet stationed there, from inhibiting Japanese tankers from getting oil in Indonesia after the US had cut oil supplies off to Japan.
I suggest you do some genuine homework and look up Commodore Perry and his gunboat diplomacy. Then study how the US backed Japan as an imperialist country in the region while giving them all of the technology to make war machines. The British even sold Japan aircraft and weapons separately so they could get around the international laws at the time.
It is the US that should thank Australians for their help in WWII in the Pacific. They caused the problem with an increasingly bad relationship with Japan, and we paid the price.
“You’ll never walk alone”
What is this some sort of right wing religious reference?
America could not give a toss about us, and it is very doubtful they would ever come to our aid. It’s all about the US always. MAGA. Don’t try to fool us.
Australians, pay no mind to this chinese propagandist, he gets paid to spew out what his commie friends tell him to say…. You know when push come to shove, us americans will always fight for you… The similarities between Nazi Germany, ww2 japan and modern china is chilling… Your country has nothing in common with china. you must stand proud and with your head held high but with your fist clenched ready to fight the chinese. We all know what they’re ultimate goal is and that is to rule the world by exporting their way of government that oppresses anyone that says anything against them. History is littered with dictators and governments that tried to silence their citizens and it’ll continue to be littered by it because FREEDOM in the end always wins. Humans are hardwired to be free…. We will never be silenced by China because the democratic countries of the world together are stronger that a single communist country no matter what their propaganda tells you… Democracy will prevail.
Is it to much to ask Americans to stop telling us what to do? This is Australia not the US.
The only country that resembled Nazi Germany recently was the US under Trump, and many important Americans have said it themselves, even Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger. Madeleine Albright also wrote a book about Trump’s fascism.
I give you 1/10 for history. You should actually read some before you use your prejudices to condemn everyone else and push for potential nuclear war.
i see that the Chinese government has trained you well on how to reply to those people who oppose china. Guess what bootlicker, your words mean nothing when we stand as one against the tyranny of china.
FREE TIBET, FREE HONG KONG, NO MORE CONCENTRATION CAMPS, NO MORE RAPING UIGHURS WOMEN, STOP TRYING TO TAKE OVER TAIWAN THEY DON’T WANT TO BE PART OF YOU, ALLOW YOUR PEOPLE TO BE FREE, QUIT STEALING COUNTRIES TECHNOLOGIES AND RESOURCES, STOP THE CHINESE DEBT ENTRAPMENT, STOP HELPING OTHER DICTATORSHIPS, QUIT CLAMING A WHOLE SEA ALL TO YOURSELF, STOP MAKING MADE UP ISLANDS IN PLACES THOUSANDS OF MILES FROM YOUR SHORES. THAT DOESN’T MAKE IT YOURS.
start behaving like a responsible stakeholder and not as a child that gets upset when someone calls out their hypocrisy… Australians, do no look the other way. China is a threat to the Australian’s way of life and a threat to the whole world. Do not let history repeat itself and then claim that you didn’t see it coming.
Etiquette, etiquette! When somebody SHOUTS, you know they have lost the debate.
No nachumama, its just that I took long road to learn how to argue and debate properly using evidence and rational thought, instead of shouting out the standard diatribe on the same old stereotyped cliches from the sidelines like you do.
The same claims about human rights that the US didn’t give a toss about until Trump became elected.
You are a war mongerer, you are the one that says you want war with China yourself. That is all you are are concerned about, so please spare me with your false compassion over anyone.
I guess like many, you push your views but don’t intend to get mixed up in horrendous, potential nuclear war yourself.
I don’t care if you know how to use a caps lock button to make upper case letters.
George, just to help get this back on track and hopefully to make a positive suggestion in support of Tony Kevin. Nachumama, whoever he is, is right about the Uighurs and China needs to be prevailed upon to deal with Muslims in ways that avoid the West’s strategy of bombing the shish-kebabs out of them. The one person I know who has the stature to do this is Kevin Rudd. A Fluent Chinese speaker with a Chinese Australian son-in-law, skilled diplomat and Foreign Minister worthy of succeeding Gareth Evans (with a portfolio he should never have left for the Prime Ministership), highly articulate, and respected across both sides of politics (well, the moderates, anyway) Rudd should be supported by Australian Business to lead a delegation to Beijing, there to meet with the Chinese leadership, thereby superseding our own inept political leaders on both sides at a time of immense political and economic threat to Australia in particular and the Region in general. Anyone out there to second my proposal or does some fond illusion mock me?
Rudd’s Chinese language mastery impresses even the most educated Chinese in Beijing. Unfortunately for all his Chinese connections, he failed miserably as a “friend of China” in the eyes of the Chinese leadership. Unlike the late Bob Hawke (and of course Gough Whitlam) who was very much liked in the halls of power in Beijing.
If I may suggest something- you need to look at alternate sources of information regarding Xinjiang. It’s perfectly natural to believe the 24/7 relentless stories of horror happening to the Uighurs. Ditto Hong Kong, Taiwan and Tibet. They are all the soft underbellies of China. For the US, the competition with China has become existential, and hence all the ‘news’ regarding all these regions of China.
Could the news be fake? Yes, remember Iraqi WMD circa 2003… .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
That interesting what you say about Rudd, Man Lee.
I have always seen him as far more capable than anything we have in Coalition in his knowledge of China and Mandarin fluency, and his study of the CCP, but I’m eager to hear what you might say about him after your remark: ” he failed miserably as a “friend of China” in the eyes of the Chinese leadership.
The Chinese leadership over the decades has always recognised particular Western leaders who were ‘old friends of China’ (中國的老朋友). I suppose this is a function of China’s relative isolation and hence their appreciation of leaders whom they thought were genuine friends that they could trust.
Among the US leaders, Bush Senior, Carter, and Kissinger (arguably guilty of war crimes…) were always thought of as old friends. Australian leaders who really won the Chinese over were Whitlam and Hawke. You can google about them on this point.
Kevin Rudd was perhaps too knowledgeable about Chinese history, and hence I think he was ‘too clever by half’ by making political points in China that did not go down too well.
https://chinachannel.org/2018/04/27/zhengyou/
https://theconversation.com/has-kevin-rudd-failed-us-on-china-1359
Rudd therefore has never made it to the Chinese pantheon of ‘old friends of China’. Having an excellent command of the language is only one factor; he is far from being seen as an ‘old friend of China’. (Sure he is popular among Chinese Australians but that counts for zero in China…)
I don’t think there is any prospect of an improvement in the relationship with China for the foreseeable future.
Thank you Man Lee for pointing this out to me, and supplying the references as well to explain the way Rudd is seen in China. I did not know this. I’ve largely watched Rudd’s many talks on video and agreed with his comments on neo-McCarthyism taking over Australia with the disaster in foreign relations that the Liberals have created. He’s always said we should tone down the rhetoric and opt for better diplomacy, but I did not know that he had the reputation you point out he has in China. I realise that terms like 老朋友 are to be earned, and not given out lightly. It takes many years to gain such trust and level of respect, and so it should be. It would seem that from what I have read now, and from what you say, that Rudd can be patronizing to the Chinese through his knowledge, and no one likes to have their own culture thrown back in their face in such ways.
It reminds me of a story I once read about a Western tourist in Thailand.
Many Thais (but not all) are practising Buddhists who hold genuine respect for their religion. One thing to know about a Buddhist culture as in Thailand, is that you never touch anyone on the top of the head because it is a highly sacred part of the body.
A market store seller in Bangkok was approached by a Western tourist to buy an item from his store. He wanted an even lower discount than what the seller thought was fair after the usual haggling over price. The tourist in wanting to force the issue, told the store owner that he should be ‘more Buddhist’ by lowering the price even further and demonstrate more compassion and generosity. (Two very important practices for Buddhists.) At the same time he also pat the Thai shop seller on the head as if he was a dog – he had no idea about Thai Buddhist culture and had not bothered to inform himself of it in the least. For a Westerner the price was already exceedingly cheap anyway.
Needless the Thai shop owner became enraged by the experience of forced humility, and told the tourist to get lost. I would have too.
Cultural insensitivity is unfortunately not limited to Westerners. In times past, we have had the ‘ugly’ American, Japanese, and recently ugly Chinese tourists! Not to mention a video that I have seen that showed drunken Aussies abusing a taxi driver and his cab in the expatriate haven of Lan Kwai Fong in Hong Kong (they must have thought of themselves as Anglo colonial overlords of Chinese coolies!).
But I suppose it is par for the course as the global village- assuming we get over Covid- gets smaller and smaller, and we all have to get along. Much better than threatening each other with megatons of nuclear weapons!
I can’t disagree with that
Thanks Man Lee
Rudd is a careerist. If mainstream opinion is swept away in a flood of lies, he will still compromise with it.
Hello Michael, and I thank you for your comment.
This debate on China-America-Australia has been going on here on P&I for a very long time and I, as much as many others have debated such things as the Uyghur situation in Xinjiang many times. There are any number of ways of seeing it provided from many perspectives here. If human rights are being violated there, or women being raped, then I for one would condemn that. But we also have to separate the Xinjiang situation from fake and distorted news propaganda that is pushing the case for war against China for dubious reasons, and this is well debated on these pages too.
One of our most knowledgeable academics here in Australia is Dr David Brophy who wrote a book called Uyghur Nation. He also speaks several languages that are used in the region and has spent much time in Xinjiang studying the situation. The Uyghurs wish for a separate country, and they are pushing for that – is a long story that goes back a very long time, but for some reason it only came to the worlds attention in a big way when Trump was elected. (Issues like Tibet also did, when no one had showed any interest in the US or Australia it for more than 65 years). Yes there was a UN report but they never actually went there. Brophy accepts that the Uyghurs are poorly treated, but still suggests that we let China sort it out, for if we close the door to China with to much negative and often unfounded rhetoric then that will make it worse.
Skilful diplomacy on these key issues is the way to go, the idea being that if there is too much diatribe sent in China’s direction over everything it does, we miss out on emphasising key issues, and China will shut the door. Another point Brophy makes is that we will have more effect on China if we also are consistent in our approach to human rights and clean up our act as well. We cannot seriously sell Saudi Arabia military equipment for profits given the state of Yemen, nor should we applaud when we broker a FTA with Israel, when Israel has a shocking human rights record. Our conduct with refugees and treatment of Indigenous Australians also makes us hypocrites. If we accuse China of violating international agreements we also cannot take part in illegal US led wars like Iraq where perhaps millions died,many innocent and often children. The Chinese just say ‘well we try to change their thinking while you just kill people who don’t agree with your views’.
I’ve been listening to Kevin Rudd for a very long time concerning China and he is very capable of working with the country to our benefit. He understands Xi Jinping and the CCP quite well and is also not frightened of making criticisms when he feels it is required. He also is one of the only politicians who speaks fluent Mandarin as you point out.
The problem in Australia is the Australian federal government. For one they will not engage Rudd because he is ex-Labor and there is no bi-partisanship with the Liberals. They in turn, only listen to the US, or rather the historical US, because they still seem to think Trump is in power. They also see Rudd as an apologist, and so does a lot of their voter base. Even the fact that he speaks Chinese for some means he is a member of the CCP.
Yes it would be good if there was a delegation from business that went to Beijing with someone like Rudd, but the current problems are caused by the Morrison government’s blind allegiance to American geopolitics and we have failed at the diplomatic and even media level. Rudd would be capable of solving the various problems through competent diplomacy. And there are many more who could do it as well.
China has certainly got wind that the US under Trump and Pompeo wanted a neocon’s regime change. We’ve also been too sloppy with our rhetoric, and it is concerning how much the US military industrial complex has won the ear of our government both directly and through organisations like ASPI who are in part funded by members of the same military industrial complex.
If you read my first comment above near the top, you’ll see that I’m suggesting there is more hope for a better and fairer diplomatic relationship with China since Biden has made quite an effort to reach out to China on the eve of Chinese New Year. But I think there is no hope with Morrison in Australia. We have just gone too far being the megaphone of the US under Trump.
You may accept nachumama’s points on the Uyghurs etc., but this person has been pushing for war with China for 15 years. I suggest if you have time to read Hugh White’s view of how that could end. It was posted as an article on P&I only a week or so ago. Anyone who has one skerrick of concern for humanity, and human rights, who is pushing for warfare in such a high density populated region (and potentially for the world through nuclear weapons) can certainly have no concern for the well being of others.
Hello George
I have been following your lines of thought and must give your credit that you always back up your argument with good evidence based.
As fellow Australian, I am also very concerned about Australia – China relations and even more on US China relations. I am a peace maker and try to prevent any war not to mention nuclear war. I am a member of National Council of Medical Association for Prevention of War (www.mapw.org.au) and an International Councillor of International Physician for Prevention of Nuclear War (www.ippnw.org). We are really worried if US China relation is not handled properly, a war involving nuclear war is not to be ruled out. It will be a big disaster for humanity and the world.
We are all human. We all make mistakes. We all shout loudly about shared civilised values of freedom, democracy, human rights, good governance etc and criticize each other for each other’s short comings. We should also look more into the sufferings of real peoples involved including those serving in the military forces as a result of the continuation of conflicts and wars. Just look at the figures of mortality, injuries, refugees problems etc in Middle East alone is so horrific to face up to. It is a shame on all political and community leaders for not promoting peace and development in the world hard enough to stop the conflicts and wars.
We all have our weaknesses and strengths. In this 21st “civilised century”, we all should avoid blame game, cold war mentality of creating “enemies”, spreading hatred and vengeance as it hurts all of us regardless where you are. Confrontations and wars are not the ways for people to learn from their mistakes.
If the good of the West can marry the good of the East, if the good of the American can marry the good of the Chinese, you can imaging how beautiful the world can be! The whole world can be governed with love, peace and development for common good of humanity and mankind! And for the benefit of all peoples regardless of their backgrounds, religions, languages, cultures, beliefs, and system of governments as long as they can provide good governance to their peoples first and foremost. That is also the great Chapter of United Nations as beacon of our human civilization. The strong should help the weak and the haves should help the have nots until they can help themselves. Blessings to all in 2021 and beyond.
Thank you for your kind words Dr Ka Sing Chua.
I agree entirely with what you write and also seek to end warfare, especially when racism and prejudice are used as the fuel to convince an unwitting public. It is absurd in this day and age to be still war mongering, and in many cases it is not even about genuine issues but about selling weapons and keeping one country’s dominance over another. It can also be about corporations and keeping some very wealthy people in a positions where they create further inequality at the expense of those who go to war for them.
We have two major issues facing us at the moment and both could spell a horrific end to the human race. As you would very well know, nuclear warfare is there constantly like a shadow, and high tech hybrid warfare is atrocious as well, and it is surgical and sanitised. The other threat is climate change for I am also a strong advocate for action.
Of course ‘Homo sapiens’ means the ‘man who knows’, or the ‘human being that knows’, but in terms of the current state of world we are going to have to learn very quickly how to live without wars, and levels of pollution and environmental destruction that are unprecedented.
For that we need world cooperation; not retreating into nationalism and blind patriotism. And I’m certain that the far greater proportion of human beings do not want conflict or to see their planet ruined by continued pollution and mindless destruction of nature. War is even both.
We also need to use the money spent on wars to counter the effects of climate change because that is what it will require. As you would know the doomsday clock is now at 100 seconds to midnight. It is scary but I remain optimistic and will continue to use my life to act where I can.
I commend you for what you are doing, and am once again honored to be approached by another Australian of Chinese heritage. I neither understand racism or the desire for violence, so I’m sure we would have very much in common.
Many years ago a university lecturer told me that making a claim about anything was useless unless you could say ‘why’ and substantiate that claim. As you would know the ‘why’ can only ever be explained through a rational argument and evidence. That also has to be accompanied with a willingness to debate fairly, and to accept that it is about finding the truth, not just being subjectively right in your own opinion. It makes it so easy to accept a greater truth when you are wrong.
Great mate George. Thanks for your wisdom. I could not agree more with what you just stated. We all have to work together to save humanity , civilization and the planet. Stop any war and stop the use of nuclear weapon and prevent any possibility of a nuclear war which will destroy every good thing human civilization has achieved so far. And we have to also think of protecting our future generation. All the good people in P&I and other part of the world SHOULD JOIN FORCE to convince our “ignorance-induced” leaders to change course including all the owners and journalists of MSM around the world to spread and preach the right gospel for all of us.
Bless the mankind and the planet.
One can only hope for a tipping point where we suddenly see that cooperation, care for one another and the natural world, and the importance of striving for equality and fairness stands out like a beacon.
Thanks again for your comments.
Eastern wisdom and genuine Western wisdom are highly compatible, and often one and the same.
So are we as people on this Earth.
Yes
“Eastern wisdom and genuine Western wisdom are highly compatible, and often one and the same.” The wisdom of United Nations of working together for peace and
development and assist the weak and disadvantaged so we all can enjoy the fruit, fairness; just and equality as a multicultural family of mankind.
I am also a member of IPAN i.e. Independent and Peaceful Australia Network.
Contact me kasingchua@hotmail.com to have a private chat if you wish. Glad to have the conversation with you George. Cheers
This maryjoy333 aka nachumama needs to take a long cold shower – then look at all the continuing inequities within the US and the inequities caused by its 800 military bases scattered “strategically” around the world (including a number within Australia) before advising us here in Australia on our role in becoming a frontline for US paranoia about China…
I wondered as well if it was MaryJoy333 or yet another different profile for D_N_E who also delivers the same aggression and condemnation without showing any capacity to debate rationally.
While I consider many Americans as my friends, and also hold much respect for Americans that denounced Trump and could see where it would end, there are others like nachumama (yes they are American gleaned from their other profile comments) that think Australians are here to follow orders, and that is exactly what people like myself as an Australian find obnoxious. It’s bad enough that our government is such a US sycophant, and that concerns me greatly, way before any Chinese issue.
The fact that we are lining up to buy a fleet of highly expensive aircraft that are lemons, where even our pilots will have to submit their control of the aircraft to a US corporations and the Pentagon, is highly concerning. Who is actually running this country? How sold out are we? At what point is Australia being betrayed?
George in defense of D_N_E who i punted due to a sexist abusive post, he claims he is a pilot who has worked in Hong Kong, Halls Creek, a slew of country towns in northern Australia and what he described as the Kimberlies. He also reckoned he had flown into and around China and the US. My guess is he never got out of his y fronts and his backyard granny flat in Lakemba. But who knows. Life is full of mystery.
That’s very perceptive of you Skilts, and I think your assessment is right on the money.
I also thought D_N_E was prone to delusions about where he had been as well. Why he even spent a fair part of his life in Xinjiang.
Couldn’t argue his way out of wet paper bag either.
MaryJoy333 gave you a tick. Well done.
Two peas in a pod, just as long as you are grown by white farmers.
MaryJoy333 seems like a sweet girl. If she is reading. I am 72, eligible for the full single pension, unencumbered by debt or bad conscience and sound of lung and limb. If you have a Torrens Title without mortgage, drop me a line.
Make sure you have a Bible too, and no dates at Chinese restaurants, or even Thai ones.
I was thinking Maccas on Sunday morning. They have a “seniors” (so American) discount on the coffee here for the pension card holders. How good is Australia? Living the dream mate.
Sweet and sour hash browns?
You said it, this is one of your previous comments on our profile:
“I sounded the alarm about 15 years ago when China was 20 to 30 years behind the usa militarily, i said we should go to war with China before they become too big to fight. Everyone laughed at me, i remember their laughter. Now, look at what’s happening. If only they would have listened to me.”
I can see where you are coming from. War with China.
are you that stupid not to see that war is inevitable with China.. Does your handler not tell you that Comrade XI ultimate goal is to be the ruler of the world. Or their militarization is just for show? 50 cent shill, open your eyes and always remember that in a war between the US and China, Australians will always side with people who are culturally alike…
Sounds like you are a white supremacist as well. Almost a copy of MaryJoy333
A racist, rabid hatred of communism and suffers from the Fu Manchu neourosis (fear of intelligent and strong Chinese). He/she has the trifecta. If this is the best ASIO can dish up we should at least expect value for our tax money.
Mate the US has had that war already with the Chinese Commies as you so quaintly call them. It was called the Korean War. The US military was defeated by the PLA. MacArthur wanted to drop twenty atomic bombs on the cities of the PRC. Truman punted him. Did you miss that war chum? Try and keep up. The war with PRC is over. The US lost.
What possible advantage clinging to a falling Washington?
Well if they don’t they’ll have to invent an Australian view.
It will be interesting to see if the Biden administration produces a significant change of bogeyman as the foreign scapegoat for internally-generated US resentment and hate. There will certainly be a swing from China to Russia. How big that is will decide the fate of Australia.
The Biden family acquired interests in The Ukraine, playing its part in the eastward march of US-European imperialism (which one is tempted to call a commercial/religious Operation Barbarossa). Trump, on the other hand, was prepared to do business in Russia under the rules of the Putin government. Trump’s lack of bitterness towards Russia is clear evidence that he made money out of those dealings. It would be consistent with the Russian Government’s foreign-policy expertise for it to have arranged that outcome. If Biden wants to make up with Europe and sell them more expensive arms, he will probably play on the German phobia for Slavs.
The fate of Australia depends on world politics far too complex for the dogmatic idiots in Canberra.
Thanks Tony.
There are some significant changes in the last 24 hours, but not from Australia.
On the eve of Chinese New Year a phone call was arranged between Joe Biden and Xi Jinping. Both were very pleased to be talking. I’m not certain which country instigated it, but the point is that there has been willingness on both sides to seek a more cooperative relationship and do that during China’s most important festive season of the year.
The timing particularly for the China, suggests quite symbolically that the US and China’s relationship is off to a fresh start. This will be very well read in China and an important gesture of healing.
“Biden… said that China and the US should avoid confrontation and increase cooperation in fields such as climate change. Upholding the spirit of mutual respect, the US is willing to have candid and constructive dialogue with China, to enhance understanding and avoid misunderstandings and misjudgments.”
If you want to read the entire article, I think it is very well worth it, and I believe this to be a very big change from Biden after Trump. The article also shows how much China is seeking to have a constructive dialogue. I also acknowledge that for Biden this is a big step for him in the USA were many have also been driven to accepting racist and xenophobic views due to Trump’s persistent lies and abusive talk directed at China. Biden is potentially risking being called weak, and a China apologist in the US, but he is willing to move ahead and confront the issue head on with direct leader to leader communication.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1215521.shtml
Meanwhile in bubble Australia, Morrison has taken us way out on a very dangerous limb since he and his compliant media have been milking racism and white supremacy for all it is worth in appealing to his base. He is also giving himself and the party licence to buy more and more military equipment and weapons, and push Australia further into becoming part of the military industrial complex. We are even happy to supply Saudi Arabia with its murderous siege on Yemen, even when we are called out internationally for doing it. The Liberal government’s sloppiness and arrogance means that we stand to be the biggest losers in all this. We should also also ask why the government is singularly attacking China over human right abuse but fosters human rights abuse in Yemen and other countries around he world for profits.
Morrison has no capacity to act like a statesman and contact Xi Jinping himself however, we have lost all diplomatic and media contact, even after heavy weight Liberal party influencers such as John Howard told Morrison back as far as last November to waste no time in organising a meeting with Xi Jinping. But it’ s far too much for his ego to bear.
I wonder if this is not also influenced by the last 7 years of Liberal-IPA collusion in wanting to get rid of everything Whitlam ever did for this country. Let’s not forget Whitlam was the first to recognize the PRC government over ROC in December 1972.
China is doing this to show the world it is not the one doing the provocation to gain more kudos in the international community. It doesn’t actually expect the US to change having fought wars for almost every year of its founding.
I don’t expect anything significant to come out of Biden. He is a steady as she goes kind of guy with no vision or anything thing new. However, when China overtakes US by end of Biden’s administration in 8 years time, I can imagine the fallout.
Only time will tell, neither of us are claiming to be claire voyents, but I will still argue this is a significant gesture from both sides, and will certainly be well received by China. They will see it as tabula rasa, an offer of a clean slate, and I think Biden is a seen as a welcome change from Trump. Despite, as I say, continued US China containment policies.
On issues like climate change that will increasingly become a significant and threatening problem for the world, and already is, the best outcome would be constructive co-operation between the US and China, and that will also leave Morrison and the Coalition’s 19th Century time capsule further on out in the cold. It would be good if they focussed on this rather than potential warfare, and put the dollars where it counts. We cannot afford to waste more time.
I choose to see things a little like Albert Camus the existential philosopher who expressed his views through novels, in this case using the story of Sisyphus. Today it is very easy to feel like Sisyphus, condemned to pushing a boulder up hill and seeing it roll down again, then repeating the same exercise every day for eternity. It can often appear like nothing progresses, and nothing can be done. Three steps forward and three steps back.
We have to be satisfied with small victories, and at least remain positive about holding some hope for the future, no matter what current circumstances we face. It is sad but it is the only thing that stops us from falling into depression and giving up. It is the only thing we have really.
“Having pushed a boulder up the mountain all day, turning toward the setting
sun, we must consider Sisyphus happy.”
Sisyphus still finds something to make his repetitive life in part acceptable in seeing the beauty of the setting Sun which is part of the wonder of living on Earth. Our life on this planet is threatened by two major things, the potential for horrendous nuclear warfare, and the wrath of climate change. Take your pick. You don’t read about either in the newspapers with any degree of alarm, but it is there like a shadow all of the time.
I thank Dr Andrew Glikson for reminding me of this.
https://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/2699
Biden wont make the 8 years. He would be 86 by then. The PRC clearly sees him as lacking energy and will run out of puff. There is now a real danger of a Trumpist revival. Meanwhile Australia has made itself totally subservient and irrelevant. Chewy on the shoe as they say.
What can a declining power do? Praise China for all the progress it made over the past 3 decades? lol HA.
The problem is China is advancing so fast, the anti-China propaganda is getting so ridiculous that it really is only believable for a domestic audience while China uses this sloppy propaganda as a way to boost the moral of its own population making it even stronger.
The recent BBC report on Wuhan’s pandemic control is so ridiculous, people are starting to make parodies while UK closed CGTN so to make BBC the sole propaganda apparatus for the Anglos.
https://youtu.be/5OosRPfhcQY
Ahh the irony. You know you are going in the right direction when the West is pissed at you and start to censor you (noone is censoring DPRK’s rodong simmun for example).
I lost count on the number of times those propaganda outlets claiming Kim Jong-Un to be dead.
I lost count on the number of times those propaganda outlets claiming Kim Jong-Un to be dead.
Thanks Tony. Your contributions attracted me to Pearls and Irritations five years ago and I think you have assessed the Australian politics correctly. I dare say there is market research on the subject but, just guessing, I would say public opinion is wary of China and I will be surprised if Albanese buys into this policy area. I’m a member of the ALP and I would be advising him to keep the focus on other matters. I very much agree with you on the Covid accusation. Gain of function research was an international scientific disaster. We can’t single out the Chinese.
Jerry perhaps Timid Tony could be advised to focus on his early retirement. Tough Tanya would defeat the arse currently destroying the country.
The last federal election was May 2019. I doubt if Morrison will go early and I think Labor can win with the present leadership. It has been a long time between drinks. I have heard nothing from Penny Wong that indicates a major change in foreign policy. It was John Curtin who appealed to America and made the most memorable speech in our Parliament on the eve of the Battle of the Coral Sea. I think both sides will want to leave the China issue alone. Labor, including Tanya, will focus on domestic issues. We are in caretaker mode here in the West, four weeks away from a State election. If we get back to some normal branch meetings after 13 March I will sound out the China issue. It is more relevant here in Port Hedland than elsewhere because this is where the iron ore leaves the country.
You are in Port Hedland Jerry? Certainly your work there is critical. Is it possible for you to keep us updated over here in the Far East regarding attitudes and views? All the best in the branch and more power to your elbow.
How apt is the name ‘Five Eyes’ – five one-eyed nations; one could go on about poor vision, limited view-points being exchanged, etc but just the name gives pause for thought.
For more than a hundred years, Australia has sent troops overseas to aid our allies, the UK and the US against enemies that did not threaten Australia at all. Now we are joining in a confrontation in our own backyard, against an ‘enemy’ we cannot defeat. And when our friends in the US and the UK decide that they cannot contain China, and retreat to their own heartlands, Australia will still be here in the south Pacific, left to fend for itself.
If the basic Australian problem is an existential fear of the hordes to our north, perhaps we should acquire a small nuclear deterrent. Not latching onto the coattails, by default, of the imperialist UK/US will perhaps enable us to have sane, rational and independent policies which are more attuned to our own and the region’s own interests.
A bit drastic, but will Australia be confident enough to do so? Food for thought… .
They keep buying more and more military equipment from the US and most of it is a lemon for this country – this is considered to be making us ready for war with China.
Like with the F-35 Joint strike fighter, it still has 883 design faults of which it will only correct 160. For the rest, the company expects Australia to pay for. It’s the F111 story in the 1960s all over again. And:
“Just as disturbingly, the complete corporate capture of the Pentagon means that Lockheed Martin ultimately flies Australia’s F-35s via extended data communications links from the plane back to the manufacturer in the US. The pilot relies on a constant stream of input from the US, using a communications link that could potentially be hacked or jammed thousands of kilometres from the Australian pilot’s actual location.”
The entire story about how Linda Reynolds became Defence minister is creepy, it’s like the military-industrial complex have their woman in the top job.
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/king-of-lemons-australia-swindled-by-lockheed-martin-and-its-joint-strike-fighter/
My $10 on this “greatest weapon ever built” is it will never see an instance of real combat in its lifetime, because doing so would have a high risk of revealing the program as an uber-expensive fraud all along.
And in more news I have found out through SBS that the phone call was in fact lined up by the US.
“The call came after US Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke by phone to top Chinese diplomat Yang Jiechi on Friday.”
So who chose such a symbolic day to make the call?
新年快乐 Happy New Year
Happy Lunar New Year to you too, George.
Just like the US, our defence procurement has been clearly captured by the military-industrial complex. The only difference is that it is not even our own complex. In simple terms, we earn big bucks from China, and then pass on the goodies to the US. How good are we!
I read somewhere that regardless of how clever our engineers and technicians are, all servicing, including the software, has to go through US companies. We are literally enslaved. (There must be a clause in the anti-slavery legislation that we can use to counter this!)
‘Tis the price we pay as a client state of the USA!
We are the shoe shine boys of the Americans in Asia.
You have prompted me to consider whether the Anglo nations (excepting NZ) are acting like lemmings on a path to mass intellectual suicide. Whilst some European nations have retained the best of what makes them nice and civilized societies, our Anglo tribal leaders seem determined to do a hatchet job on their own societies.
We are arguably becoming stupider, just as the Asian century is coming to view. May be it is the fear of the latter that causes the former!
I have no prejudice at all against ex furniture salesmen, policemen, or failed marketing executives but should there at least be a basic IQ test to prevent stupidity from seeping into the main body politic?
Organisations have basic competence tests before appointing staff. Why shouldn’t our leaders be any different?
Or may be we are just stupid!
https://www.thebigsmoke.com.au/2021/01/06/our-species-once-punished-stupidity-weve-since-moved-past-that/
Thanks, Tony. Your report here confirms my own reading over the past five years of the ways in which successive Australian governments have propagandised and worsened our relationship with China – following the ugliest of US paranoid blueprints and misinformation on all the areas you outlined. And you clearly read the two political sides of that same coin – fear of wedging and fear of upsetting the US. (Bring back Gough W and bring back Malcolm F – I almost want to shout!) We have such hubristically driven hand-puppets as our corrupted “leaders” nowadays!
The headline to this article belies its content and message. Both provide ample food for thought. I get a distinctly different view to Tony’s about the ABC’s reporting. I have to admit I fervently avoid Nine Entertainment now so I can’t comment on its current direction but I suspect the newspeak is in full swing and ABC’s news [sic] reporting provides an useful insight into how the rest of the mainstream media landscape is doing, much like one can deduce how much hidden rot there is in the NSW government from the publicly exposed (and unchallenged) corruption.
Tony Kevin offers a very black-and-white view of Australia China relations and is too quick to brush over Chinese bad behaviour. That said, his basic argument that Australia has badly mishandled its relations with China is correct. Australia can defend its national interests vis-a-vis China without putting us in the current absurd diplomatic situation in which the Chinese will not talk to us, our trade relations (and jobs in this country) have suffered, our regional neighbours are looking at us askance as we dig the hole with China deeper, and all without a single demonstrable benefit to Australia. It is quite extraordinary that all of this has happened without any serious Government attempt to explain what its strategy is, what it hopes to achieve, what the end game is, and how Australia’s national interests are supported. We have a foreign minister who is virtually silent on the subject. All we hear are platitudes about protecting our sovereignty and values, none of which is seriously endangered by China. How we have come to be in this situation, with hardly anyone in public life or the media challenging it, is mind boggling.
“Tony Kevin offers a very black-and-white view of Australia China relations and is too quick to brush over Chinese bad behaviour. ”
Well about 99.9% of the media is only ever telling us that ‘China is bad’ as the meme on any story over and over again including the ABC. I think we know full well all of the accusations, ad nauseum, and quite a few of them are manufactured, fear mongering, or sensationalist. Do you think when 99% of airplay is countered by far less than 1% here, the same negativity always has to be repeated over and over again?
Let’s face it, the 99% never says a good word about China at all. Why don’t you argue for better balance from them? Why is China the only country in the world that is targeted with such a campaign?
The rest of what you say I completely agree with, which may surprise you.
Agree that the Australian media is hopelessly anti-China biased, but that doesn’t mean we need to compensate for this by denying the obviously bad things that China does. But my main point is that whatever China does in China itself, and however it conducts its foreign policy, we have to live with it. As Kishore Mahbubani noted recently, Australia has to learn to know when to push back against China, and how to get along with China, as other countries in the region, with far longer histories of conflict with China than us, have learned to do. Unfortunately Australia has yet to grasp this concept, to our disadvantage I fear.
“Australia has to learn to know when to push back against China, and how to get along with China”
We’ve been doing that for years, that is until Trump came on the scene, and Morrison becoming his megaphone.
Most of anything with China is better dealt with through efforts in skilful diplomacy. Our government completely failed on that. China has long seen us as the sock-puppet of the US. Biden to his credit has already demonstrated he understands this in the last 24 hours.
” Australia has to learn to know when to push back against China”.
Of course, and it always did, but if it rejects everything China does and says, and acts like a hypocrite over such things as human right issues, and blaming China over trade issues when we have also caused them, it just misses out on dealing with the essential points. Most peoples’ eyes glaze over when they are always the target of constant berating, and China is no different.
2021, the centenary of the founding of the CPC, is China’s coming-out year.
To augment its already unparalleled social achievements (98% home ownership by the bottom 50%, etc.) the country will launch Xi’s Great Levelling, with the goal of bringing the country’s Gini coefficient down to Finland’s level of 27%.
A popular favorite will be a complete overhaul of what a city can be and do. Built for 6-7 million people, when City 2.0 opens June 1, its loudest sound will be birdsongs. It provides blueprints for China’s urban planning and construction for the next century.
Propaganda can only do so much. By year’s end, it will be clear that China leads the world in almost every respect.
Almost? Amost! Godfree, what is wrong here? You have always insisted on China’s manifest perfection. How can you say almost?
PRC has yet to have an AFL team. Given time i am sure the parasites running the AFL will re-locate my poor long suffering South Melbourne to become the Shanghai Swans. Perfection achieved.